It's worthwhile to mention that Mosab Yousef, eldest son of Hamas founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef, has been insisting, to all who will let him speak, that there is no such thing as "the Palestinian people".
He has been almost universally denounced, despite his insider knowledge of Hamas doctrine and Arab culture. The very idea is routinely attributed to far-right Zionists with racist tendencies.
That's why it's odd to find this denial of Palestinian identity voiced elsewhere in the Arab world, and that it was said out loud by Hamas as far back as 2012:
Of course the above was voiced in Arabic, which the West has never bothered to learn. Were it not for Arabic-speaking Israelis, we would have never heard about it.
Which makes it even more disturbing to find the same information readily available in English, directly sourced from a European interview with a PLO official in the 1970s.
Consider this quote from Wikipedia, which can hardly be accused of pro-Israel bias:
---------
As a member [sic, the General Secretary] of the As-Sa'iqa faction [a Syrian-based PLO group], [Zuheir] Mohsen followed the line of Ba'athist ideology, which interpreted the question of Palestine through a pan-nationalist sense which contradicted the PLO's official stance and charter that affirmed the independent existence of Palestinian Arabs as a nation which belongs to a single democratic state that consists of all of former Mandatory Palestine.
In a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw, Mohsen made the following remark:[7]
"The Palestinian people does not exist … there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of one people, the Arab nation [...] Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons[...] Once we have acquired all our rights in all of Palestine, we must not delay for a moment the reunification of Jordan and Palestine".
The interviewer James Dorsey stated that "Mohsen's position is not that surprising. Listening to his political and ideological views, one sometimes cannot suppress the feeling that perhaps less has changed in the Arab world than was originally expected",[7] referring to the decline of Pan-Arabism in the aftermath of the Six Day War in 1967.
----------
I also found an Islamic cleric who recently told his audience in JERUSALEM that the Palestinians "have no historical right to Palestine" because their history started 1400 years ago with Islam, and their only real identity is Muslim.
So when people are lauding this peace plan do they actually know what it encompasses. They are thinking it's all wonderful but did they think about how this worked out for the Palestinian people or they are just patting each other on the back to say, YAY, we got what we want. The original intent
The “Peace to Prosperity” plan — unveiled at the White House on January 28, 2020 — was designed by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, alongside Netanyahu, David Friedman, and Jason Greenblatt.
It effectively gave Israel sovereignty over roughly 30% of the West Bank, including all settlements and the Jordan Valley, while offering Palestinians a demilitarized pseudo-state on fragmented territory only if they met DOZENS of preconditions.
Critically, NO PALESTINIANS were involved in drafting it. Arab leaders didn’t approve the plan, but because of their objections US/Israel softened the language and delayed immediate annexation. They will do what they want in the end.
The core structure — permanent Israeli control, fragmented Palestinian enclaves, and U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital — remained untouched.
The changes were largely COSMETIC, designed so Gulf allies could maintain ties with Washington while distancing themselves from the political fallout. In the end all those murderous human beings whatever side they are on will ultimately pay a very hard price, seems there are more murderous types on one side than the other.
The world leaders should HANG their heads in shame for what has been done here. We will not get justice in this life as we know who has all the power. But the day of dying will bring hell for many of the perpertrators.
I am a Clearwater area resident these past 13 yrs, and since the geo-engineering has declined (decreased but NOT ceased), the weather SEEMS to be more normal for this time of year. I would estimate that instead of several times (~4-6 times) per week, we currently see the chemtrails 1-2 times per wk. I have not set up a very scientific observational schedule ..this is entirely anecdotal.
On the subject of Jewish residents living in Israel's disputed Heartland, I'm disturbed to hear yet another repeat of the accepted narrative of "Israeli settlers" as thugs and lawbreakers. I think it's high time for Naomi to interview -- or at least research -- real live Israel leaders in Judea, Samaria, and eastern Jerusalem.
They number around 3/4 of a MILLION. They are living there legally, and the majority are not only far from extremism, they are actively building coexistence with their Arab neighbors. This is not a secret, and it's a bit scandalous that on a show which expresses strong opinions about their supposed human-rights violations, not one has been invited on to share their point of view..
Here's one place to start with -- a cooperative business venture between "west bank" Israelis and Arabs, founded in 2017, which no one else wants to talk about:
Also saying that they are cooperating with the Arabs makes it all look very pally, but again, the fact that they call it Judaea and Samaria shows they are annexing that area and potentially the working with Arabs is their way of looking like they are being helpful. It is all Israelis and US who are talked about on their site there is no sign of dialogue or other real collaboration with the Palestinian people. Perhaps it is like Netanyahu's scheme to influence the hearts and minds of people by meeting with influencers in the US to spread good propaganda about Israel and buying up Tiktok to control the narrative. Where in the world do you see the Prime minister of a country scheming with influencers to make their country look good to counterbalance the damage they are doing by their own hands
My point was that normal relations are happening, which aren't getting coverage (for obvious reasons). I only mentioned one case; there are more.
Your judgment on the Chamber's Israeli partners "looking like they are being helpful" seems patronizing to me -- as if Arabs aren't intelligent enough to know the difference between a propaganda show and real coexistence.
Either way, I suggest you not try to speak for the Arabs in our region, and let them speak for themselves. Ashraf al-Jabari is a successful businessman and a respected clan leader in Hebron, where there is currently a move to disconnect from the Palestinian Authority and align with Israel.
Sorry you are so determined to find fault with Israel, and with our democratically elected government, that you can't imagine such a thing being possible. But it's your loss.
I'm not trying to speak for the Arabs in the region. I am familiar with the region as I live here so I see what is going on. I am also familiar with people in political situations and know that it is complicated. When you are saying I am finding fault with your democratically elected government, implying that you take ownership of your government and generally seem to be alright with what is happening then that is not something I would feel proud about. If you want to bring up names I can do the same. All people who have insights, access to historical documents and are familiar even more so with what has been going on over the decades, not just now. All Jews, Noam Chomsky Norman Finkelstein Israel Shahak Amos Oz Yirmiyahu Yovel Gadi Taub Amnon Rubinstein Hannah Arendt Peter Beinart Yisroel Dovid WeissYisroel Dovid Weiss Moshe Hirsch Amram Blau Joel Teitelbaum Elmer Berger Dovid Feldman Shmuel Jakobovits Michael Lerner Brant Rosen Lynn Gottlieb But I guess they are self-hating Jews. I wish I could not find fault with your democratically elected government, it doesn't take determination, just takes having open eyes. As I said I wished I couldn't because then it would mean that all peoples living in this region were safe, happy and had their rights. They could wake up in the morning knowing they had food, water and shelter, their children and families were alive and they had hope for the future. I have to come to the conclusion from what you said that you live in Israel so I think this conversation cannot continue as you have the view of someone who is living in a bubble fed the belief system and can only see the world from this perspective. I am sure that you are a lovely person, with people that love you and you love them. Wishing you all the best, so long as it doesn't come at someone else's expense.
"I have to come to the conclusion from what you said that you live in Israel so I think this conversation cannot continue..."
Yes, I do live in Israel. And this is the standard Progressive response to Israelis who (unlike Chomsky, Finkelstein, et al.) are living here. Dismissal is based on personal identity, which automatically means no factual statements need to be addressed.
I assume you also dismiss people like Douglas Murray and Mosab Yousef, even though they don't live in the Israeli "bubble-fed belief system". But whatever.
Thank you for your otherwise charitable view of me. All the best to you as well.
Calling it “Judea and Samaria” doesn’t change the legal reality — it’s the occupied West Bank, seized by Israel in 1967 and ruled under military law ever since.
Israel is virtually alone in calling it “disputed.” The United Nations, International Court of Justice, and every major legal body on earth classify it as occupied Palestinian territory. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, moving settlers into occupied land is a war crime.
So the “dispute” exists only because one side is occupying land that isn’t theirs while the world keeps reminding them of it. Ancient names don’t rewrite modern law.
That the Arabs are finding ways to get along with these settlers is just a sign that in the end you cant keep fighting, they want to have a normal life. But ultimately these West Bank Israelis are settlers they moved onto Arab land, that's the fact.
Calling it Judea and Samaria is historical accuracy. The Jordanian occupiers gave it the name "west bank" in 1950 - and it wasn't "modern law". No countries agreed to recognize it at the time except Britain and Iraq.
The 1950 name became irreversible only when Israel reclaimed it after being attacked from there. (There are still old enemy bunkers and cannons on the hilltops, from where they used to gun down Israelis before 1967.)
But okay, let's talk about real international law, and how it's applied. Or not.
Are you aware that "the Jewish homeland in Palestine" was a binding law made by the League of Nations, that the UN upheld that ruling, and that its original borders included BOTH banks of the Jordan?
The Arabs rioted over that, so the Brits gave them the east bank as Transjordan, a Jew-free Arab state, and kept the west bank for the Jews.
The Arabs rioted again, so the UN chopped off the west bank for another Jew-free Arab state, and gave the Jews the Galilee, part of the Negev, and a skinny coast north of Ashdod.
The Arabs wanted it all. They went to war. They lost, so they had to settle for parts of the land they had refused.
Jordan became the Occupier of the west bank from 1949 until 1967. Not a word was heard to "free Palestine"... all the Palestinians were Jordanian citizens.
What's more, the "Palestine Liberation Movement" was founded in 1965. (Guess what they wanted to "liberate".)
BTW here is the legal definition of "occupation" (you can fact-check it):
"Under international law, occupation occurs when a country takes over the sovereign territory of another country."
As international law expert Eugene Kontorovich keeps patiently explaining, "the West Bank was never part of Jordan, which seized it in 1949 and ethnically cleansed its entire Jewish population."
Yes, there were Jews in the west bank before 1948. What wasn't there was an Arab Palestinian state.
There is a quasi Palestinian state today. It doesn't fit the international definition of a state. It has no borders, because it still claims all the land "from the River to the Sea". It is a proud apartheid state, and the world doesn't care. It's a terror-supporter that pays its people pensions based on how many Jews they kill. It even violates the human rights of its own citizens. (This is the moderate faction, not Hamas.)
There is no dispute on these points. The global community simply waves the issues away and repeats a "consensus" on "occupation" that keeps jihadis in their cities from rioting.
In short, international law applies to the rest of the world. There is a 'special' law for the Jewish state.
Your husband is SO smart! He has such an astute grasp of what is actually occurring in the Middle East, & he’s correct - there is no Palestine.
People forget that Jordan, formally Trans-Jordan/Arab Palestine, was created out of 78% of the former Territory of Palestine. That under the British Mandate, everything west of the Jordan was designated as Jewish Palestine. All of that territory, rightly, legally under International Law, is Jewish land.
Brian is correct that the whole point of the so-called “Palestinian Cause”, is the eradication of the Jewish state, & that is why that “cause”, is kept alive & supported by the Arab countries.
You are a very bright lady Naomi, & well-intended & wanting to be fair-minded, but I think sometimes your desire for fairness obscures certain facts/realities from you. Brian is more perceptive & realistic in this department I would say. But you make a very good pairing.
P.S. I like it when you both are affectionate with each other. Ignore the negative post on that - just be natural.
1. Background: What “Palestine” and “Transjordan” actually were under the British Mandate
After World War I, the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine (1922) gave Britain authority over a territory that had been part of the Ottoman Empire.
The Mandate text did refer to creating “a national home for the Jewish people” — but it also stated that nothing should PREJUDICE THE CIVIL AND RELIGIOUS RIGHTS OF THE EXISTING NON-JEWISH COMMUNITIES.
In Article 25, the League allowed Britain to “postpone or withhold” Jewish settlement east of the Jordan River.
Britain soon used that clause to carve out the Emirate of Transjordan (1921–22) under Abdullah I.
So Transjordan—later the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan—was indeed created from part of the Mandate area.
However, it was never called “Arab Palestine” in official documents. That term is a modern political reinterpretation.
2. “Everything west of the Jordan was designated as Jewish Palestine” — ❌ Not quite
The 1922 Mandate did not say that land west of the Jordan “belonged” to Jews or was “Jewish Palestine.”
It said Britain would facilitate a Jewish national home in Palestine — but also protect the rights of all inhabitants, who were overwhelmingly Arab at the time.
The Mandate made Britain the administrator, not the owner; sovereignty was deliberately left undefined pending a future political settlement.
3. “All of that territory, rightly, legally under International Law, is Jewish land.” — ❌ Incorrect
No international legal instrument ever declared all land west of the Jordan to be “Jewish land.”
Key milestones:
UN Partition Plan (1947) proposed two states — one Jewish, one Arab — in western Palestine. The plan was non-binding and accepted by Jews but rejected by Arab leaders.
Israel’s independence (1948) gave it sovereignty only over the territory it controlled after the war; the West Bank was held by Jordan until 1967.
After 1967, Israel occupied the West Bank; its status under international law remains disputed. The UN, ICJ, and virtually all states (including the US, historically) do not recognize it as Israeli sovereign territory.
Therefore, saying it is legally Jewish land under international law is not accurate—it reflects a particular nationalist or religious interpretation, not the international consensus.
4. What is correct in that sentence
Jordan was created from about three-quarters of the Mandate territory.
The Mandate aimed to create a Jewish national home west of the Jordan.
But that’s where the factual accuracy ends; the leap to “legally Jewish land” misrepresents the Mandate’s legal status and how international law has evolved since 1948.
Blessin's yer way Brian...I know it's braver fer ya ta speak trooth when yer gonna bleed subscribers fer not supporin' HamAss an' I hope one day you'll convince yer brilliant wife that the two sides ain't equal 'er equally "guilty" an' that this brutal blood war...is not genocide. (Sigh) THANK YA MUCHLY fer statin' that the tunnels are real (there is ample evidence!) an' fer mentionin' WHY the Guzzlin's ain't starvin. I hope Naomi, whose writin' I do adore, will one day "own" that Islam (I-slam) ain't the "same" as Judaism an' nope--Muslims & Joos do not all "think alike" nor are they really like brothers. (Golda Meir has some purdy spot-on quotes 'bout that....) Comparin' elite intellectuals (with Western Education) on both "sides" is kinda silly--most Fallastinians are not educated--they are kept ignorant "a' purpose" (as they'd say in olde english). They know their Quoran an' prayers 5x / day an' they know ta hate da joos an' wish 'em dead. I daresay that even if there are "gaps" in the avg. education in Israel, most are far more literate an' worldly an' well-informed. Of course there'z pulenty of "propergander" but joos don't go 'round killin' the 20% of their population that's Arab (be they Muslim or Christian). Look'it the new interview with Tommy Robinson in Israel amongst black/sudanese (etc) refugees many of whom have been in Israel illegally fer neigh 20 years. NONE have claimed any discrimination at all... IMHO Israelis may be brusque (sabra) an' they sho nuff do have a bias against those that want'em dead.... but nope, my eggsperience sez they ain't racist or biased at all..... They would not mind livin' next to the Fallastinians if the latter didn't want 'em DEAD. Two state solution--nix. It's baked inta Islam--not fer lack of InterCultural kumbayah fests over the last few decades :-(
Just sayin'...
Thx ta Brian fer speakin' them inconvenient trooths! Good "podcast!"
Before making sweeping claims about an entire people, it helps to step beyond headlines and propaganda.
Have you ever been to Israel or Palestine? Spoken with families in Hebron or Bethlehem, or walked through the checkpoints? It’s very easy to moralize from afar, but the reality on the ground is nothing like what you describe.
International law, the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and even Israeli human rights groups such as B’Tselem and Breaking the Silence have documented decades of illegal settlement expansion, home demolitions, arbitrary detentions, and military occupation. These are not opinions; they are verifiable facts.
Settlers regularly seize Palestinian farmland under military protection. Footage exists of settlers attacking farmers during olive harvests, spitting on clergy, and burning groves — while Palestinians are forbidden from carrying so much as a pocketknife to defend themselves. That is not “coexistence.” That is colonization enforced by force.
To conflate ordinary Palestinians defending their homes with Hamas is intellectually lazy and morally dishonest. Resistance to expulsion is not terrorism. If someone expelled you from your house, bulldozed your town, and then claimed you were the aggressor for resisting, would you call that justice?
When world-renowned scholars of genocide, former UN rapporteurs, and even Holocaust survivors call what is happening genocidal, they do so after eyewitness investigation, not from “television clips.”
And when Israeli leaders openly declare that Gaza must be “erased” or that Palestinians must “leave or die,” those words speak for themselves.
So before you reduce millions of human beings to caricatures about “hating the Jews,” perhaps ask why the ones with all the power, the tanks, and the air force are the ones expanding, bombing, and walling others in — and why global consensus now recognizes the moral inversion at play.
Unfortunately I wonder whether you will be able to read this because it looks as though English is not even your second language.
Please continue these presentations. I find your take so informed and comforting, regardless of the subject matter. I look forward to your essays and talks. Thank you for taking the time.
It's worthwhile to mention that Mosab Yousef, eldest son of Hamas founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef, has been insisting, to all who will let him speak, that there is no such thing as "the Palestinian people".
(for example, his side-note here - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBbe2F3Rp_t )
He has been almost universally denounced, despite his insider knowledge of Hamas doctrine and Arab culture. The very idea is routinely attributed to far-right Zionists with racist tendencies.
That's why it's odd to find this denial of Palestinian identity voiced elsewhere in the Arab world, and that it was said out loud by Hamas as far back as 2012:
https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-minister-interior-and-national-security-fathi-hammad-slams-egypt-over-fuel-shortage
Of course the above was voiced in Arabic, which the West has never bothered to learn. Were it not for Arabic-speaking Israelis, we would have never heard about it.
Which makes it even more disturbing to find the same information readily available in English, directly sourced from a European interview with a PLO official in the 1970s.
Consider this quote from Wikipedia, which can hardly be accused of pro-Israel bias:
---------
As a member [sic, the General Secretary] of the As-Sa'iqa faction [a Syrian-based PLO group], [Zuheir] Mohsen followed the line of Ba'athist ideology, which interpreted the question of Palestine through a pan-nationalist sense which contradicted the PLO's official stance and charter that affirmed the independent existence of Palestinian Arabs as a nation which belongs to a single democratic state that consists of all of former Mandatory Palestine.
In a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw, Mohsen made the following remark:[7]
"The Palestinian people does not exist … there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of one people, the Arab nation [...] Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons[...] Once we have acquired all our rights in all of Palestine, we must not delay for a moment the reunification of Jordan and Palestine".
The interviewer James Dorsey stated that "Mohsen's position is not that surprising. Listening to his political and ideological views, one sometimes cannot suppress the feeling that perhaps less has changed in the Arab world than was originally expected",[7] referring to the decline of Pan-Arabism in the aftermath of the Six Day War in 1967.
----------
I also found an Islamic cleric who recently told his audience in JERUSALEM that the Palestinians "have no historical right to Palestine" because their history started 1400 years ago with Islam, and their only real identity is Muslim.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQLGpb4DNkz
Why is the "Palestinian people" movement considered above question, if the Arabs never even believed in it??
I'm beginning to think this is as deep a rabbit hole as the infamous Pfizer Papers... only with greater risks for those who peer down into it.
So when people are lauding this peace plan do they actually know what it encompasses. They are thinking it's all wonderful but did they think about how this worked out for the Palestinian people or they are just patting each other on the back to say, YAY, we got what we want. The original intent
The “Peace to Prosperity” plan — unveiled at the White House on January 28, 2020 — was designed by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, alongside Netanyahu, David Friedman, and Jason Greenblatt.
It effectively gave Israel sovereignty over roughly 30% of the West Bank, including all settlements and the Jordan Valley, while offering Palestinians a demilitarized pseudo-state on fragmented territory only if they met DOZENS of preconditions.
Critically, NO PALESTINIANS were involved in drafting it. Arab leaders didn’t approve the plan, but because of their objections US/Israel softened the language and delayed immediate annexation. They will do what they want in the end.
The core structure — permanent Israeli control, fragmented Palestinian enclaves, and U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital — remained untouched.
The changes were largely COSMETIC, designed so Gulf allies could maintain ties with Washington while distancing themselves from the political fallout. In the end all those murderous human beings whatever side they are on will ultimately pay a very hard price, seems there are more murderous types on one side than the other.
The world leaders should HANG their heads in shame for what has been done here. We will not get justice in this life as we know who has all the power. But the day of dying will bring hell for many of the perpertrators.
I am a Clearwater area resident these past 13 yrs, and since the geo-engineering has declined (decreased but NOT ceased), the weather SEEMS to be more normal for this time of year. I would estimate that instead of several times (~4-6 times) per week, we currently see the chemtrails 1-2 times per wk. I have not set up a very scientific observational schedule ..this is entirely anecdotal.
'Hope that this info helps you a bit.
On the subject of Jewish residents living in Israel's disputed Heartland, I'm disturbed to hear yet another repeat of the accepted narrative of "Israeli settlers" as thugs and lawbreakers. I think it's high time for Naomi to interview -- or at least research -- real live Israel leaders in Judea, Samaria, and eastern Jerusalem.
They number around 3/4 of a MILLION. They are living there legally, and the majority are not only far from extremism, they are actively building coexistence with their Arab neighbors. This is not a secret, and it's a bit scandalous that on a show which expresses strong opinions about their supposed human-rights violations, not one has been invited on to share their point of view..
Here's one place to start with -- a cooperative business venture between "west bank" Israelis and Arabs, founded in 2017, which no one else wants to talk about:
https://ibroundtable.org/our-story
I also recommend talking to the mayor of Ariel, the regional capital of Samaria and home of Israel's newest university.
Like Tel Aviv.* Ariel was founded on land purchased from the Arab owners.
https://www.friendsofariel.org/about/about-ariel
* KUDOS TO BRIAN FOR MENTIONING THAT!
Also saying that they are cooperating with the Arabs makes it all look very pally, but again, the fact that they call it Judaea and Samaria shows they are annexing that area and potentially the working with Arabs is their way of looking like they are being helpful. It is all Israelis and US who are talked about on their site there is no sign of dialogue or other real collaboration with the Palestinian people. Perhaps it is like Netanyahu's scheme to influence the hearts and minds of people by meeting with influencers in the US to spread good propaganda about Israel and buying up Tiktok to control the narrative. Where in the world do you see the Prime minister of a country scheming with influencers to make their country look good to counterbalance the damage they are doing by their own hands
My point was that normal relations are happening, which aren't getting coverage (for obvious reasons). I only mentioned one case; there are more.
Your judgment on the Chamber's Israeli partners "looking like they are being helpful" seems patronizing to me -- as if Arabs aren't intelligent enough to know the difference between a propaganda show and real coexistence.
Either way, I suggest you not try to speak for the Arabs in our region, and let them speak for themselves. Ashraf al-Jabari is a successful businessman and a respected clan leader in Hebron, where there is currently a move to disconnect from the Palestinian Authority and align with Israel.
Sorry you are so determined to find fault with Israel, and with our democratically elected government, that you can't imagine such a thing being possible. But it's your loss.
I'm not trying to speak for the Arabs in the region. I am familiar with the region as I live here so I see what is going on. I am also familiar with people in political situations and know that it is complicated. When you are saying I am finding fault with your democratically elected government, implying that you take ownership of your government and generally seem to be alright with what is happening then that is not something I would feel proud about. If you want to bring up names I can do the same. All people who have insights, access to historical documents and are familiar even more so with what has been going on over the decades, not just now. All Jews, Noam Chomsky Norman Finkelstein Israel Shahak Amos Oz Yirmiyahu Yovel Gadi Taub Amnon Rubinstein Hannah Arendt Peter Beinart Yisroel Dovid WeissYisroel Dovid Weiss Moshe Hirsch Amram Blau Joel Teitelbaum Elmer Berger Dovid Feldman Shmuel Jakobovits Michael Lerner Brant Rosen Lynn Gottlieb But I guess they are self-hating Jews. I wish I could not find fault with your democratically elected government, it doesn't take determination, just takes having open eyes. As I said I wished I couldn't because then it would mean that all peoples living in this region were safe, happy and had their rights. They could wake up in the morning knowing they had food, water and shelter, their children and families were alive and they had hope for the future. I have to come to the conclusion from what you said that you live in Israel so I think this conversation cannot continue as you have the view of someone who is living in a bubble fed the belief system and can only see the world from this perspective. I am sure that you are a lovely person, with people that love you and you love them. Wishing you all the best, so long as it doesn't come at someone else's expense.
"I have to come to the conclusion from what you said that you live in Israel so I think this conversation cannot continue..."
Yes, I do live in Israel. And this is the standard Progressive response to Israelis who (unlike Chomsky, Finkelstein, et al.) are living here. Dismissal is based on personal identity, which automatically means no factual statements need to be addressed.
I assume you also dismiss people like Douglas Murray and Mosab Yousef, even though they don't live in the Israeli "bubble-fed belief system". But whatever.
Thank you for your otherwise charitable view of me. All the best to you as well.
Calling it “Judea and Samaria” doesn’t change the legal reality — it’s the occupied West Bank, seized by Israel in 1967 and ruled under military law ever since.
Israel is virtually alone in calling it “disputed.” The United Nations, International Court of Justice, and every major legal body on earth classify it as occupied Palestinian territory. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, moving settlers into occupied land is a war crime.
So the “dispute” exists only because one side is occupying land that isn’t theirs while the world keeps reminding them of it. Ancient names don’t rewrite modern law.
That the Arabs are finding ways to get along with these settlers is just a sign that in the end you cant keep fighting, they want to have a normal life. But ultimately these West Bank Israelis are settlers they moved onto Arab land, that's the fact.
Calling it Judea and Samaria is historical accuracy. The Jordanian occupiers gave it the name "west bank" in 1950 - and it wasn't "modern law". No countries agreed to recognize it at the time except Britain and Iraq.
The 1950 name became irreversible only when Israel reclaimed it after being attacked from there. (There are still old enemy bunkers and cannons on the hilltops, from where they used to gun down Israelis before 1967.)
But okay, let's talk about real international law, and how it's applied. Or not.
Are you aware that "the Jewish homeland in Palestine" was a binding law made by the League of Nations, that the UN upheld that ruling, and that its original borders included BOTH banks of the Jordan?
The Arabs rioted over that, so the Brits gave them the east bank as Transjordan, a Jew-free Arab state, and kept the west bank for the Jews.
The Arabs rioted again, so the UN chopped off the west bank for another Jew-free Arab state, and gave the Jews the Galilee, part of the Negev, and a skinny coast north of Ashdod.
The Arabs wanted it all. They went to war. They lost, so they had to settle for parts of the land they had refused.
Jordan became the Occupier of the west bank from 1949 until 1967. Not a word was heard to "free Palestine"... all the Palestinians were Jordanian citizens.
What's more, the "Palestine Liberation Movement" was founded in 1965. (Guess what they wanted to "liberate".)
BTW here is the legal definition of "occupation" (you can fact-check it):
"Under international law, occupation occurs when a country takes over the sovereign territory of another country."
As international law expert Eugene Kontorovich keeps patiently explaining, "the West Bank was never part of Jordan, which seized it in 1949 and ethnically cleansed its entire Jewish population."
Yes, there were Jews in the west bank before 1948. What wasn't there was an Arab Palestinian state.
There is a quasi Palestinian state today. It doesn't fit the international definition of a state. It has no borders, because it still claims all the land "from the River to the Sea". It is a proud apartheid state, and the world doesn't care. It's a terror-supporter that pays its people pensions based on how many Jews they kill. It even violates the human rights of its own citizens. (This is the moderate faction, not Hamas.)
There is no dispute on these points. The global community simply waves the issues away and repeats a "consensus" on "occupation" that keeps jihadis in their cities from rioting.
In short, international law applies to the rest of the world. There is a 'special' law for the Jewish state.
The bomb did not stop
Your husband is SO smart! He has such an astute grasp of what is actually occurring in the Middle East, & he’s correct - there is no Palestine.
People forget that Jordan, formally Trans-Jordan/Arab Palestine, was created out of 78% of the former Territory of Palestine. That under the British Mandate, everything west of the Jordan was designated as Jewish Palestine. All of that territory, rightly, legally under International Law, is Jewish land.
Brian is correct that the whole point of the so-called “Palestinian Cause”, is the eradication of the Jewish state, & that is why that “cause”, is kept alive & supported by the Arab countries.
You are a very bright lady Naomi, & well-intended & wanting to be fair-minded, but I think sometimes your desire for fairness obscures certain facts/realities from you. Brian is more perceptive & realistic in this department I would say. But you make a very good pairing.
P.S. I like it when you both are affectionate with each other. Ignore the negative post on that - just be natural.
1. Background: What “Palestine” and “Transjordan” actually were under the British Mandate
After World War I, the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine (1922) gave Britain authority over a territory that had been part of the Ottoman Empire.
The Mandate text did refer to creating “a national home for the Jewish people” — but it also stated that nothing should PREJUDICE THE CIVIL AND RELIGIOUS RIGHTS OF THE EXISTING NON-JEWISH COMMUNITIES.
In Article 25, the League allowed Britain to “postpone or withhold” Jewish settlement east of the Jordan River.
Britain soon used that clause to carve out the Emirate of Transjordan (1921–22) under Abdullah I.
So Transjordan—later the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan—was indeed created from part of the Mandate area.
However, it was never called “Arab Palestine” in official documents. That term is a modern political reinterpretation.
2. “Everything west of the Jordan was designated as Jewish Palestine” — ❌ Not quite
The 1922 Mandate did not say that land west of the Jordan “belonged” to Jews or was “Jewish Palestine.”
It said Britain would facilitate a Jewish national home in Palestine — but also protect the rights of all inhabitants, who were overwhelmingly Arab at the time.
The Mandate made Britain the administrator, not the owner; sovereignty was deliberately left undefined pending a future political settlement.
3. “All of that territory, rightly, legally under International Law, is Jewish land.” — ❌ Incorrect
No international legal instrument ever declared all land west of the Jordan to be “Jewish land.”
Key milestones:
UN Partition Plan (1947) proposed two states — one Jewish, one Arab — in western Palestine. The plan was non-binding and accepted by Jews but rejected by Arab leaders.
Israel’s independence (1948) gave it sovereignty only over the territory it controlled after the war; the West Bank was held by Jordan until 1967.
After 1967, Israel occupied the West Bank; its status under international law remains disputed. The UN, ICJ, and virtually all states (including the US, historically) do not recognize it as Israeli sovereign territory.
Therefore, saying it is legally Jewish land under international law is not accurate—it reflects a particular nationalist or religious interpretation, not the international consensus.
4. What is correct in that sentence
Jordan was created from about three-quarters of the Mandate territory.
The Mandate aimed to create a Jewish national home west of the Jordan.
But that’s where the factual accuracy ends; the leap to “legally Jewish land” misrepresents the Mandate’s legal status and how international law has evolved since 1948.
Blessin's yer way Brian...I know it's braver fer ya ta speak trooth when yer gonna bleed subscribers fer not supporin' HamAss an' I hope one day you'll convince yer brilliant wife that the two sides ain't equal 'er equally "guilty" an' that this brutal blood war...is not genocide. (Sigh) THANK YA MUCHLY fer statin' that the tunnels are real (there is ample evidence!) an' fer mentionin' WHY the Guzzlin's ain't starvin. I hope Naomi, whose writin' I do adore, will one day "own" that Islam (I-slam) ain't the "same" as Judaism an' nope--Muslims & Joos do not all "think alike" nor are they really like brothers. (Golda Meir has some purdy spot-on quotes 'bout that....) Comparin' elite intellectuals (with Western Education) on both "sides" is kinda silly--most Fallastinians are not educated--they are kept ignorant "a' purpose" (as they'd say in olde english). They know their Quoran an' prayers 5x / day an' they know ta hate da joos an' wish 'em dead. I daresay that even if there are "gaps" in the avg. education in Israel, most are far more literate an' worldly an' well-informed. Of course there'z pulenty of "propergander" but joos don't go 'round killin' the 20% of their population that's Arab (be they Muslim or Christian). Look'it the new interview with Tommy Robinson in Israel amongst black/sudanese (etc) refugees many of whom have been in Israel illegally fer neigh 20 years. NONE have claimed any discrimination at all... IMHO Israelis may be brusque (sabra) an' they sho nuff do have a bias against those that want'em dead.... but nope, my eggsperience sez they ain't racist or biased at all..... They would not mind livin' next to the Fallastinians if the latter didn't want 'em DEAD. Two state solution--nix. It's baked inta Islam--not fer lack of InterCultural kumbayah fests over the last few decades :-(
Just sayin'...
Thx ta Brian fer speakin' them inconvenient trooths! Good "podcast!"
Before making sweeping claims about an entire people, it helps to step beyond headlines and propaganda.
Have you ever been to Israel or Palestine? Spoken with families in Hebron or Bethlehem, or walked through the checkpoints? It’s very easy to moralize from afar, but the reality on the ground is nothing like what you describe.
International law, the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and even Israeli human rights groups such as B’Tselem and Breaking the Silence have documented decades of illegal settlement expansion, home demolitions, arbitrary detentions, and military occupation. These are not opinions; they are verifiable facts.
Settlers regularly seize Palestinian farmland under military protection. Footage exists of settlers attacking farmers during olive harvests, spitting on clergy, and burning groves — while Palestinians are forbidden from carrying so much as a pocketknife to defend themselves. That is not “coexistence.” That is colonization enforced by force.
To conflate ordinary Palestinians defending their homes with Hamas is intellectually lazy and morally dishonest. Resistance to expulsion is not terrorism. If someone expelled you from your house, bulldozed your town, and then claimed you were the aggressor for resisting, would you call that justice?
When world-renowned scholars of genocide, former UN rapporteurs, and even Holocaust survivors call what is happening genocidal, they do so after eyewitness investigation, not from “television clips.”
And when Israeli leaders openly declare that Gaza must be “erased” or that Palestinians must “leave or die,” those words speak for themselves.
So before you reduce millions of human beings to caricatures about “hating the Jews,” perhaps ask why the ones with all the power, the tanks, and the air force are the ones expanding, bombing, and walling others in — and why global consensus now recognizes the moral inversion at play.
Unfortunately I wonder whether you will be able to read this because it looks as though English is not even your second language.
Is that supposed to be English? 🫣
Stop calling people "sweetheart" not very professional.
Brian is her husband. It's perfectly appropriate.
OK...if its Brian, her husband.
I think it’s nice.
She doesn’t have to hide that she loves him.
It’s their podcast - not a news station!
Please continue these presentations. I find your take so informed and comforting, regardless of the subject matter. I look forward to your essays and talks. Thank you for taking the time.
The bear is symbolic of Islamic jihad inspired anti-Semitism at the door.
Where do you get that from?
Reality.
There is no symbol or a bear connected to Islamic Jihad
There is here - it doesn’t have to be by historical precedent.
Please give evidence. I have researched it and found nothing.