It’s possible to be pro-life and pro-choice. I am, but it’s based on a personal dilemma that nearly cos the life of my now wonderful 35 year old daughter . But not terminating the pregnancy was my choice. It turned out to be the right choice.
That said, life is precious, late term abortion is hideous, but denying the right to privacy and reproductive autonomy with extreme restrictions is overreaching and in humane.We’re not a theocracy but we’re well on our way to godlessness.
Cultural backwaters like Sarah Jewett's Maine, Flannery O'Connor's Georgia, Eudora Welty's Mississippi... Laura Wilder's forest-to-plains ecocline? They'll have to shut down the internet now, as we all expect they'll try... they can't starve us out, and we've already stockpiled ammo + skills... just in case there's a miracle cure for Sniffy Joe and that whole crack thing, and the entire N. Taleb theory.... not sue at this point if he want's to pitch his fate with ex-Judenrat Esperantist Hungarian illegal immigrant Georgie.
That's not a winner for most of us. Maybe for sad fool Blake School preppie tit-grabber, useless comic Al Franken.
This is the best essay I've yet read on the abortion dilemma, and beautifully articulates what I have long intuitively felt about it. We need more people to acknowledge these truths, that abortion is, as you put it, a necessary evil...not a glorious expression of feminist freedom and a victory over the patriarchy. And though I've always considered myself as pro-choice, I'm deeply offended with the cavalier way in which some people dismiss and dishonor the personhood of unwanted fetuses, and the way their bodies are bought and sold for scientific research.
But I love the idea of, as some of the Eastern cultures do, honoring the souls of those unborn children who were waylaid on their journey into life.
The woke world has taken any discussion of basic religious values out of the public square , is to the traditional family in many ways such as viewing stay at home moms and "Mommytrack positions" as inferior and in ignoring the medical evidence that is depicted on a sonogram at the early stage of pregnancy. To paraphrase Peggy Noonan, a society that has no respect for life at its beginning will have contempt at best for life during life and at the end of life as well.
Glad to see the discussion: the worst thing for human community is the cultural and then political silencing of robust conversation, and the fear of that robust-ness. I am a pro-life feminist (of a kind), and so I feel deeply for women throughout history who have had no voice, no real agency, etc.; however, I find it diabolical (warped division) that those who claim to be pro-woman are also pro-abortion. I understand the logic, but it is not sound. To be integrated, we have to live in reality; thinking you are choosing the good for yourself or for women in general by killing another person is not reality.
What turned me off to the "pro-life", anti-abortion movement was the extremism that is rife with their "good family people": Characters like Rev. Gary Hartsock of East Lyndon, Vermont. He made his wife bear baby after baby like a brood animal without regard to what she wanted. Even when she had a dead fetus in her womb he insisted it not be aborted. His theology was crazy and full of overactive demonologies. Even skiing in his mind was of Satan. His kids were trained in the use of 9mm pistols for what he said were for an inevitable government raid. He drove a car with a Bible verse instead of a license plate. Members of his "church" engaged in various government actions, refusing to pay local property taxes, engaging in protest; people like Michael Janes fought the government on the "right to drive" issue with "kingdom of heaven" license plates, etc.. He was put in solitary confinement for a month. The 1999 Vermont "civil unions" bill antagonized many of these people. Having babies without limit seems to be an unarguable mandate with these people.
Thank you. It is refreshing to see this perspective. When we put things into neat little black and white categories, we ignore the fact that the world is made up of many shades of gray. I am pro-choice in that I believe everyone has a right to make medical decisions for themselves and have autonomy over their own bodies. I am pro-life in that I believe life is a precious and sacred gift from the Creator and our lives are to be cherished and used to help make the world a better place. People should take 100% responsibility over themselves and their choices, including getting an abortion. A life was ended, and that is a tragedy and should be mourned as such, no matter the reasoning behind the choice. We do have a huge problem now with dehumanization and the devaluing of nature and all things organic and natural. Here is the definition of nature: "the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations." AS OPPOSED TO HUMANS. Yet, I am intensely aware that I am very much a part of nature and this planet. This dichotomy is the source of much of our current distress and disease. We must repair our relationship to nature and life before we can ever begin to do any healing on a personal and collective level.
As I read this essay, I couldn't help but think of my own journey on this subject. I won't bore you with the background, however I have come to be able to label myself as a "pro-life realist", a term I coined to provide myself with needed reconciliation. I do believe that life begins at conception. I also realize that even if there was a law tomorrow outlawing all abortions, this in itself doesn't end abortion. When I volunteered at pregnancy centers, my approach was so different than others. Earlier in my life, I chose to have an abortion, I always wondered, "If I knew all the information I knew now, would I still make the same decision?" So my mission was to arm these women with as much information as possible, i.e.fetal development, education about the procedure, available resources if carried to term, and possible side effects from having an abortion -physically, mentally, spiritually. This is what I still believe is what truly empowers all of us - information.
Jan 24, 2022·edited Jan 24, 2022Liked by Dr Naomi Wolf
Thank you, Dr. Wolf, for your profoundly honest, courageous and thoughtful writing.
How one views the ending of a life depends on one's values. At one end of the spectrum, there are those who wouldn't hurt a fly, literally. Then there are those who wouldn't kill and eat any animal. Then some who wouldn't eat dogs or horses or cows. Then some who wouldn't eat their pets. When it comes to humans, some wouldn't kill one at any stage of development. Others wouldn't kill a fetus older than X weeks. Others wouldn't kill a human after birth, for any reason. Others would, for various reasons. Others would, for no reason at all. When a society decides to pick a point on this spectrum and prohibit acts on one side but not the other, there will certainly be strongly felt opposition.
There would be less controversy if we understood life better, if we had indisputable facts upon which to base our social values, but we don't have enough of them. But we can speculate and that might help clarify our values.
What if reincarnation is real? What if we could somehow see a spirit enter and leave the body? What if we could remember entering and leaving ourselves? What if there is such a thing as body consciousness, separate from spirit consciousness?
Then we have two distinct consciousnesses that are separate, merge for a lifetime, and then separate again when the body dies. When does the merge take place? What if the merge takes place shortly before or after birth? What if a prior agreement is made between between parents and child in the spirit realm? What if the child spirit hovers around the parents during pregnancy and they could communicate with it? What if the child spirit decides not to enter for various reasons including abortion? What if the child spirit enters anyway for various reasons (including karma) in any case?
What if it's not possible to kill a spirit? That doesn't get us off the hook because a departing spirit or a spirit that never arrives as planned is often a cause of grief and possibly karma, depending on circumstances.
I believe that all life is sacred and should be honored including in circumstances when a premature death (human or animal; old, young or pre-born) is believed to be necessary, whether or not prohibited by society. Every option available to avoid such an outcome should be considered, and if there is no avoiding it, then at least conduct a vigil, ritual or ceremony to recognize and mourn the loss of the life that was cut short.
Jan 24, 2022·edited Jan 24, 2022Liked by Dr Naomi Wolf
Dr. Wolf, I much appreciate your clarity on the tyranny which is intent on robbing all of us of our God given rights. However, you are not exempt from being held to the most basic laws of logic, reason, ethics, science and philosophy. I was a pro-choice young man who had always held an expectation that any gal who I inadvertently impregnated would "take care of it" and have an abortion. I then married a wonderful woman and when she was pregnant with our first child we excitingly went to the OBGYN for the 8 week ultrasound. After 10 anxious minutes of the doctor poking around with the ultrasound, he confirmed the baby was full grown (for an 8 week old) but that the heart had stopped beating. My wife and I were absolutely crushed. At this moment of deep pain I realized the most profound, yet basic truth; this child cannot be a baby when I want it to be, yet also be a disposable clump of cells when I do not want a baby. After two painful years of reflecting on this obvious truth which I had been oblivious to due to my my upbringing and the culture I was raised in, I humbled myself in pain knowing I had been ignorantly a willing murder for my entire life. I repented and eventually joined the most consistent voice for the dignity of life; the Catholic Church. Here is a brief clip from Saint Mother Teresa speaking truth a the National Prayer Breakfast in 1994. Her wisdom came not from any fancy university, nor silver spooned mentors. Her wisdom came from true Catholic Charity (love) https://www.facebook.com/SusanBAnthonyList/videos/fight-abortion-by-adoption-mother-teresabill-hillary-clinton-were-sitting-just-f/10153628079646370/
Very, very good Naomi. I read through the comments, it is impressive how you continue the conversation without shutting any thought or idea down. Thank you for this, Tim
I shared it with the late fervent "pro life" advocate Rev. John Rankin of the "Theological education institute" and he disagreed with out providing specific arguments.
I know typically blue collar home schooling families who seemed all about their clans and expanding their gene pool; As many babies as could be procreated.....They were paranoid about family planning, sex education or birth control in any form.
The home schooling often left the kids being dolts, lacking in career skills, some with no GEDs, against government help until that was their only option.
As a Harvard educated friend said to me "abortion is a hideous procedure", though he was a dedicate liberal, mainly due to personal experiences. He once got a girl pregnant and his friends in AA made sure that she got an abortion as he did not have an income to support more than himself, or at least doubted it. Strange how life provides for extra mouths to feed.....
It is wrong to shame people as many churches do with those who have abortions for the deterrent effects. What I find particularly questionable would be for the parents of very well off kids to coerce their daughter into an abortion for "career" reasons, that not going that route would kill her career.
Of course men have no reproductive rights as a left of center friend likes to repeat a lot.
What is the provenance of "a morality beyond just our bodies and ourselves."
It’s possible to be pro-life and pro-choice. I am, but it’s based on a personal dilemma that nearly cos the life of my now wonderful 35 year old daughter . But not terminating the pregnancy was my choice. It turned out to be the right choice.
That said, life is precious, late term abortion is hideous, but denying the right to privacy and reproductive autonomy with extreme restrictions is overreaching and in humane.We’re not a theocracy but we’re well on our way to godlessness.
Well done. It is a struggle. For an easy test is worth little.
I am no longer pro-choice. Complete Spiritual Awakening.
Cultural backwaters like Sarah Jewett's Maine, Flannery O'Connor's Georgia, Eudora Welty's Mississippi... Laura Wilder's forest-to-plains ecocline? They'll have to shut down the internet now, as we all expect they'll try... they can't starve us out, and we've already stockpiled ammo + skills... just in case there's a miracle cure for Sniffy Joe and that whole crack thing, and the entire N. Taleb theory.... not sue at this point if he want's to pitch his fate with ex-Judenrat Esperantist Hungarian illegal immigrant Georgie.
That's not a winner for most of us. Maybe for sad fool Blake School preppie tit-grabber, useless comic Al Franken.
This is the best essay I've yet read on the abortion dilemma, and beautifully articulates what I have long intuitively felt about it. We need more people to acknowledge these truths, that abortion is, as you put it, a necessary evil...not a glorious expression of feminist freedom and a victory over the patriarchy. And though I've always considered myself as pro-choice, I'm deeply offended with the cavalier way in which some people dismiss and dishonor the personhood of unwanted fetuses, and the way their bodies are bought and sold for scientific research.
But I love the idea of, as some of the Eastern cultures do, honoring the souls of those unborn children who were waylaid on their journey into life.
The woke world has taken any discussion of basic religious values out of the public square , is to the traditional family in many ways such as viewing stay at home moms and "Mommytrack positions" as inferior and in ignoring the medical evidence that is depicted on a sonogram at the early stage of pregnancy. To paraphrase Peggy Noonan, a society that has no respect for life at its beginning will have contempt at best for life during life and at the end of life as well.
Glad to see the discussion: the worst thing for human community is the cultural and then political silencing of robust conversation, and the fear of that robust-ness. I am a pro-life feminist (of a kind), and so I feel deeply for women throughout history who have had no voice, no real agency, etc.; however, I find it diabolical (warped division) that those who claim to be pro-woman are also pro-abortion. I understand the logic, but it is not sound. To be integrated, we have to live in reality; thinking you are choosing the good for yourself or for women in general by killing another person is not reality.
What turned me off to the "pro-life", anti-abortion movement was the extremism that is rife with their "good family people": Characters like Rev. Gary Hartsock of East Lyndon, Vermont. He made his wife bear baby after baby like a brood animal without regard to what she wanted. Even when she had a dead fetus in her womb he insisted it not be aborted. His theology was crazy and full of overactive demonologies. Even skiing in his mind was of Satan. His kids were trained in the use of 9mm pistols for what he said were for an inevitable government raid. He drove a car with a Bible verse instead of a license plate. Members of his "church" engaged in various government actions, refusing to pay local property taxes, engaging in protest; people like Michael Janes fought the government on the "right to drive" issue with "kingdom of heaven" license plates, etc.. He was put in solitary confinement for a month. The 1999 Vermont "civil unions" bill antagonized many of these people. Having babies without limit seems to be an unarguable mandate with these people.
Thank you. It is refreshing to see this perspective. When we put things into neat little black and white categories, we ignore the fact that the world is made up of many shades of gray. I am pro-choice in that I believe everyone has a right to make medical decisions for themselves and have autonomy over their own bodies. I am pro-life in that I believe life is a precious and sacred gift from the Creator and our lives are to be cherished and used to help make the world a better place. People should take 100% responsibility over themselves and their choices, including getting an abortion. A life was ended, and that is a tragedy and should be mourned as such, no matter the reasoning behind the choice. We do have a huge problem now with dehumanization and the devaluing of nature and all things organic and natural. Here is the definition of nature: "the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations." AS OPPOSED TO HUMANS. Yet, I am intensely aware that I am very much a part of nature and this planet. This dichotomy is the source of much of our current distress and disease. We must repair our relationship to nature and life before we can ever begin to do any healing on a personal and collective level.
As I read this essay, I couldn't help but think of my own journey on this subject. I won't bore you with the background, however I have come to be able to label myself as a "pro-life realist", a term I coined to provide myself with needed reconciliation. I do believe that life begins at conception. I also realize that even if there was a law tomorrow outlawing all abortions, this in itself doesn't end abortion. When I volunteered at pregnancy centers, my approach was so different than others. Earlier in my life, I chose to have an abortion, I always wondered, "If I knew all the information I knew now, would I still make the same decision?" So my mission was to arm these women with as much information as possible, i.e.fetal development, education about the procedure, available resources if carried to term, and possible side effects from having an abortion -physically, mentally, spiritually. This is what I still believe is what truly empowers all of us - information.
Interesting read, thanks!
https://nakedemperor.substack.com/
Thank you, Dr. Wolf, for your profoundly honest, courageous and thoughtful writing.
How one views the ending of a life depends on one's values. At one end of the spectrum, there are those who wouldn't hurt a fly, literally. Then there are those who wouldn't kill and eat any animal. Then some who wouldn't eat dogs or horses or cows. Then some who wouldn't eat their pets. When it comes to humans, some wouldn't kill one at any stage of development. Others wouldn't kill a fetus older than X weeks. Others wouldn't kill a human after birth, for any reason. Others would, for various reasons. Others would, for no reason at all. When a society decides to pick a point on this spectrum and prohibit acts on one side but not the other, there will certainly be strongly felt opposition.
There would be less controversy if we understood life better, if we had indisputable facts upon which to base our social values, but we don't have enough of them. But we can speculate and that might help clarify our values.
What if reincarnation is real? What if we could somehow see a spirit enter and leave the body? What if we could remember entering and leaving ourselves? What if there is such a thing as body consciousness, separate from spirit consciousness?
Then we have two distinct consciousnesses that are separate, merge for a lifetime, and then separate again when the body dies. When does the merge take place? What if the merge takes place shortly before or after birth? What if a prior agreement is made between between parents and child in the spirit realm? What if the child spirit hovers around the parents during pregnancy and they could communicate with it? What if the child spirit decides not to enter for various reasons including abortion? What if the child spirit enters anyway for various reasons (including karma) in any case?
What if it's not possible to kill a spirit? That doesn't get us off the hook because a departing spirit or a spirit that never arrives as planned is often a cause of grief and possibly karma, depending on circumstances.
I believe that all life is sacred and should be honored including in circumstances when a premature death (human or animal; old, young or pre-born) is believed to be necessary, whether or not prohibited by society. Every option available to avoid such an outcome should be considered, and if there is no avoiding it, then at least conduct a vigil, ritual or ceremony to recognize and mourn the loss of the life that was cut short.
Dr. Wolf, I much appreciate your clarity on the tyranny which is intent on robbing all of us of our God given rights. However, you are not exempt from being held to the most basic laws of logic, reason, ethics, science and philosophy. I was a pro-choice young man who had always held an expectation that any gal who I inadvertently impregnated would "take care of it" and have an abortion. I then married a wonderful woman and when she was pregnant with our first child we excitingly went to the OBGYN for the 8 week ultrasound. After 10 anxious minutes of the doctor poking around with the ultrasound, he confirmed the baby was full grown (for an 8 week old) but that the heart had stopped beating. My wife and I were absolutely crushed. At this moment of deep pain I realized the most profound, yet basic truth; this child cannot be a baby when I want it to be, yet also be a disposable clump of cells when I do not want a baby. After two painful years of reflecting on this obvious truth which I had been oblivious to due to my my upbringing and the culture I was raised in, I humbled myself in pain knowing I had been ignorantly a willing murder for my entire life. I repented and eventually joined the most consistent voice for the dignity of life; the Catholic Church. Here is a brief clip from Saint Mother Teresa speaking truth a the National Prayer Breakfast in 1994. Her wisdom came not from any fancy university, nor silver spooned mentors. Her wisdom came from true Catholic Charity (love) https://www.facebook.com/SusanBAnthonyList/videos/fight-abortion-by-adoption-mother-teresabill-hillary-clinton-were-sitting-just-f/10153628079646370/
Very, very good Naomi. I read through the comments, it is impressive how you continue the conversation without shutting any thought or idea down. Thank you for this, Tim
This is an impressive bomb like flurry of thoughts that are hard to process with the current divisions in our political discourse.
I found John Irving's piece in the NYT illuminating: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/23/opinion/anti-abortion-history.html
I shared it with the late fervent "pro life" advocate Rev. John Rankin of the "Theological education institute" and he disagreed with out providing specific arguments.
I know typically blue collar home schooling families who seemed all about their clans and expanding their gene pool; As many babies as could be procreated.....They were paranoid about family planning, sex education or birth control in any form.
The home schooling often left the kids being dolts, lacking in career skills, some with no GEDs, against government help until that was their only option.
As a Harvard educated friend said to me "abortion is a hideous procedure", though he was a dedicate liberal, mainly due to personal experiences. He once got a girl pregnant and his friends in AA made sure that she got an abortion as he did not have an income to support more than himself, or at least doubted it. Strange how life provides for extra mouths to feed.....
It is wrong to shame people as many churches do with those who have abortions for the deterrent effects. What I find particularly questionable would be for the parents of very well off kids to coerce their daughter into an abortion for "career" reasons, that not going that route would kill her career.
Of course men have no reproductive rights as a left of center friend likes to repeat a lot.