I would encourage all to listen to Hebrew scholar Dr Margaret Barker's profound explication of Creation in the scriptures, in support of what I detail below.
Margaret Barker recounts Genesis as describing how God made the heavens and the earth in the pattern of the Temple - the heavens representing the Holy of Holies where God dwells in the unseen realm, and the curtain delineating the boundary with earth, the concrete, visible reality.
Humanity was created to be the place where heaven and earth meet, (we were to be fractals of the pattern of creation or mini- temples if you like). Adam was designated the role of High Priest over the created order but failed to fulfill that role as we know.
Israel was given a unique calling through Abraham to be a blessing to all nations, part of which undoubtebly included that wherever she lived she would inhabit that space in a way that brought blessing to her neighbours. We see in scripture that Israel too, turned away from her calling, something that Pastor Cahn does not appear to mention.
When Israel abandoned her first love and went after other gods, Yaweh named her a whore and in turn Yaweh's Temple was violated and destroyed.
When Jesus came to the Jewish people, he instantiated the Temple once more as the second Adam and this is why he said 'Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again'. This is also why the good news of believers in Jesus is 'the Kingdom of God is within' or even 'Jesus is in you, even if you do not comprehend it', and 'whoever puts his trust in me (Jesus), rivers of living water will flow from his innermost being'. Sin is violating the divine fountain within, bricking up the waters of life so they are unable to flow.
The Jewish leadership put Jesus to death because he exposed them and because he represented a genuine threat to their collusion with Rome and their reinterpretation of the scriptures to suit their vested interests.
Jesus foresaw the destruction of the rebuilt Temple in AD 70 as judgment on Israel's rulers aligning themselves with Empire, and wept.
Today, Israel's leadership has pimped itself to the Anglo- American Empire, buying favours, support and assent to atrocities beyond imagining through AIPAC funding of political and academic leaders and institutions. I do not see any hatred of the Jewish people, only horror of what Israelies continue to perpetrate on Palestinian and muslim peoples including unspeakable torture of prisoners. I do not believe that Israel has enemies, but that it has created them by intentionally wreaking havoc through bombing and other aggressive actions in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Iran. Restraint is one directional and none is coming from Israel.
If political events in the world seem to circle around maybe its because the world is being given a chance to do better this time!
I have been attending the Traditional Latin Mass, and what I have learned in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults), is that the Gregorian Chants, codified by St. Gregory the Great, are based on the same musical tones that were used in the synagogues in Jesus’ time. The liturgy also is based on the readings from the Psalms and other passages, which are chanted or sung, like it was in the synagogues. This is because the earliest Christians were Jews, and they perpetuated those traditions. I’m told that it is more similar than what is now chanted or sung in modern synagogues, because all that changed after the Diaspora. So the Traditional Latin Mass is closely tied with Judaism. Unfortunately, that has been lost in Protestant denominations and also the Novus Ordo Catholic Mass. With resurgence of evil forces in the world today, I’m not surprised that the Latin Mass has come under attack by the current Pope, and that traditional Catholics who attend it were flagged by the FBI. No offense to Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo mass or Protestants. You would have to experience it for yourselves to see the difference.
I caught that eye roll and smirk as well between Naomi and Rabbi Cahn…a shared private understanding left me with uncomfortable afterthoughts. I do not accept Gentiles are grafted to Israel. anymore than Rabbi Cahn is grafted less than as a Jew through his acceptance of Jesus as his Messiah (although I found out I am 16% Ashkenazi for what is that worth? ) Jesus was not a Christian but a Jewish Messiah sent with a new covenant . As a Gentile, Jesus being a Jewish Messiah was not a concern , His Light and Holy Divinity summoned me.
The eye roll and smirk at 51:51 says a lot. The LORDS hand is on you... you are twice chosen, John 3:5.
Bible prophecy is fun, but there is work to do gathering the CREATORS harvest of souls. You are playing a role in that.
In my late teens in the late 70's I came across Carla Carlson and Hal Lindsey's book and movie The Late Great Planet Earth. A similar discussion, but using current events of those days.
Thank you Dr. Wolf for this interview with Pastor/Rabbi Cahn. I so appreciate your questions, openness and bravery, especially in these times.
I am a Christian, and have followed Jesus for 60 years. I love G-d, the Jewish people and Israel and am so thankful to have been grafted into the “olive tree”. I am one of 8 children in my family. In 1962, at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis my mother was standing at the clothesline hanging the never ending baskets of laundry and she cried out to G-d, “if you are real, help me! I am terrified! How will I keep these 6 (at the time) children safe?”
The next day a woman invited her to Bible Study Fellowship. In studying the Bible with other women, my mom came to believe in Jesus and His death and resurrection as the propitiation for her sin and the gift of eternal life with Him. My father and all of my family eventually became Christians.
G-d moves in this world He created and He moves in individual hearts and lives. Keep seeking! Blessings!
Thank you dear Naomi for sharing such a truly edifying and touching conversation.
You are so loved and appreciated! 🌹
My thoughts of the Mystery of the
“The Holy Trinity”afterward were of…
“In my house there are many Mansions”
John 14 ►
Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus Comforts the Disciples
1Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God: believe also in me. 2In my Father's house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I shall go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself: that where I am, you also may be. 4And whither I go you know: and the way you know.
The Way, the Truth, and the Life
5Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest. And how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
7If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him. And you have seen him.
8Philip saith to him: Lord, show us the Father; and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou: Show us the Father? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 11Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? 12Otherwise believe for the very works' sake. Amen, amen, I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do: and greater than these shall he do. 13Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
(Joel 2:28-32; John 16:5-16; Acts 2:1-13; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-7)
15If you love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever: 17The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you orphans: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live, and you shall live. 20In that day you shall know that I am in my Father: and you in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith to him, not the Iscariot: Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not to the world? 23Jesus answered and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him and we will come to him and will make our abode with him. 24And the word which you have heard is not mine; but the Father's who sent me.
25These things have I spoken to you, abiding with you. 26But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
I believe that Paul went to the nations because he understood that not only would he draw the nations to Yeshua, but he would find the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jews for the most part ( with exceptions) are 2 1/2 tribes and the rest were scattered in the Assyrian exile and scattered in the nations. Yeshua said "the sheep would hear his voice" . In Ezekiel 37 15-28 it says the two branches will become one in the hand of a Davidic King. Paul was not anti Torah. That's a very big misunderstanding of his words. He was just trying to tell the non-Israelites, or the non-Jews that they did not need to circumcise to be included in the covenant. Israel became the "melo-hagoyim" . In Romans 11 it says that Paul did not want us to be ignorant of the mystery but a partial hardening has come to Israel until the until the fullnesss of the nations comes in thus all Israel will be saved. Melo Hagoyim is the same as the pleroo ethnos. The great mystery is that we will live in shalom under King Yeshua. I met a rabbi in Israel who said to me, "he's coming back there" pointing to Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14. I said to him, "They will look upon him who they pierced and weep as one weeps for an only begotten Son" Zechariah 12:10. He said "exactly" There are secret believing Jews in Jerusalem in one yeshiva. . There is much more but I will leave it hear for now. Thanks for this video!
Thank you so much for this interview with Rabbi/Pastor Cahn. The questions you asked were very insightful. As I listen to you and read your beautifully crafted essays, your struggle reconciling your Judaism with Yeshua also being God has been interesting (I wish I had a better word than interesting) to observe. My heart keeps seeing that you are so close to understanding the connections and I pray for you regularly. I am a Christian who has always had a strong affinity for Israel and the Jewish people and culture. From a very young age I have been drawn to books that teach me more about this. After listening to this interview, I believe the reason is that this is truly a soul connection. God grafted us Gentiles into His Jewish family and through that grafting, we are one. How amazing and beautiful is that?!
Thank you for all the tireless work you do on so many fronts. Your readings of the Old Testament are wonderful. I especially enjoy hearing the accurate pronunciations of persons and places.
Dear Naomi. Thank you for interviewing Jonathan Cahn and giving him your platform to discuss his remarkable work. I've read a couple of his books and have been awestruck by all that he shares. Thank you also for revealing to us the thoughts that heavily occupy your mind at present. It was a lovely moment when you briefly unveiled the deepest part of your internal struggle. I hope you get a chance to talk with "Rabbi Cahn" about it next time. I noticed that you honored him with that title at the end of your interview. It was a respectful gesture, but I believe it also represents a subtle but important softening toward the position he holds, a position that you had been previously careful to define as distinct from your own.
Naturally, I am interested in continuing that conversation that you and Rabbi Cahn had to postpone. I'm sure you won't be surprised to learn that many Jewish seekers have foundered on the claim of Jesus' divinity. It's especially strange for us that someone so soaked in Jewish understanding, Paul the Apostle, would seem to so glibly accept the divinity of Jesus as if it wasn't some kind of blasphemy. Like you, I struggled with coming to terms with Pauline Christianity, given how antithetical to Judaism an idea like the Trinity would seem to be.
I found some books to be particularly helpful in shaping my thinking about this subject. One of them is a short book by John Oesterreicher called "Unfinished Dialogue", written in response to Martin Buber's "Two Types of Faith". A helpful insight from that book that I expect you will particularly enjoy, given your interest in the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, is a discussion about a concept called "the Memra of the Lord. " According to Oesterreicher, the Aramaic word for "logos" is "memra", so if we assume an earlier Aramaic text underlying the Gospel of John, the opening reads: "In the beginning was the Memra, and the Memra was with God and the Memra was God". Later, the Gospel declares, the Memra became flesh and dwelt among us". Oesterreicher points out that there was already a rich history regarding "the Memra of the Lord" in the contemporary commentary of the scripture in the first century called "targumim". "The Memra of the Lord" was a construction used in these targumim to label the anthropomorphised representations of God. When the Lord raises an arm against an opposing army, it is"the Memra of the Lord" that raises its arm. Essentially, the opening of the Gospel of John could be loosely interpreted like this: From the beginning we already knew about the person-like quality of God we called the Memra of the Lord, which was always part of God and was God. This Memra of the Lord became flesh and dwelt among us.
I also highly recommend Krister Stendahl's "Paul Among the Jews and Gentiles" in which Stendhal unpacks what Paul is trying to accomplish in his Epistle to The Romans. We learn that Paul's primary concern was defining this bicameral "Kingdom of God" consisting of Jewish and Gentile components -- separate but equal and ideally mutually blessing each other. I came away with a deeper appreciation of Paul after reading Stendahl. Another essay in that book challenges the notion that Paul struggled with the introspective conscience attributed to him by St. Augustine, reflected in a particular reading of Romans 7 regarding Paul's struggle against sin in the flesh. Stanley Stowers' "A rereading of Romans" really clarifies the point by bringing a deep understanding of Homeric Greek to this passage. We learn the passage needs to be read rhetorically as a dialogue, and the resulting reading is much more consistent with the way Paul presents himself elsewhere in scripture, as a proud learned Jew with an excellent rabbinical pedigree.
There's much to say about this topic, and there are many more well informed people than I with whom you can have this discussion, but I'm happy to share a piece of my journey when, like you, my head was filled with those same thoughts.
I feel that the fact that Trinitarianism was not always the dominant belief in Christendom should be highlighted often. Your comment on "the Memra of the Lord" is very interesting. To me the weightiest consideration on this is: what do we mean by the concept of Jesus' divinity? If 'theos' is a title, what does it mean? What does it mean when people ask, was Jesus divine or human? Is divinity an order of being? Or, is 'theos', being a title, unrelated to Jesus' nature, but rather to the power to subject? In other words, we need to clearly define the terms. The importance of this question cannot be overstated as it has ingrained the idea that to accept Paul you must accept the Trinity, which, is a deal-breaker for many. What if Jesus, irrespective of the make-up of His being, nonetheless has a God? And why did Paul often start his epistles with something like: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...? Did Paul believe that Jesus has a God? Yes he did. That is the true North that guided me through the fog of confusion called Trinitarianism.
Ryan K. Balot's 'Greed and Injustice in Classical Athens' quotes 'The Histories of Herodotus' (420-450BC) regarding the Pelasgians' use of the plural 'theoi' (the Pelasgians are thought to be the earliest/prehistoric inhabitants of Greece):
“Herodotus… describes the Pelasgians' method of sacrificing to the gods without any distinction of name or title. He says, "They called these [divinities] theoi, from the fact that they place [thentes] all things in order [kosmos] and assign all distributions.”
The thought of placing or subjecting does seem to be the central meaning of 'El', 'Eloah', 'Elohim' and the Greek 'Theos'.
"For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet...
For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God [the Supreme Subjector or Placer] may be All in all." - 1Cor.15
Your interview has spurred me to write an article about the ways the authors of the New Testament acknowledge the divinity of Jesus, in sources other than Paul:
I would encourage all to listen to Hebrew scholar Dr Margaret Barker's profound explication of Creation in the scriptures, in support of what I detail below.
Margaret Barker recounts Genesis as describing how God made the heavens and the earth in the pattern of the Temple - the heavens representing the Holy of Holies where God dwells in the unseen realm, and the curtain delineating the boundary with earth, the concrete, visible reality.
Humanity was created to be the place where heaven and earth meet, (we were to be fractals of the pattern of creation or mini- temples if you like). Adam was designated the role of High Priest over the created order but failed to fulfill that role as we know.
Israel was given a unique calling through Abraham to be a blessing to all nations, part of which undoubtebly included that wherever she lived she would inhabit that space in a way that brought blessing to her neighbours. We see in scripture that Israel too, turned away from her calling, something that Pastor Cahn does not appear to mention.
When Israel abandoned her first love and went after other gods, Yaweh named her a whore and in turn Yaweh's Temple was violated and destroyed.
When Jesus came to the Jewish people, he instantiated the Temple once more as the second Adam and this is why he said 'Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again'. This is also why the good news of believers in Jesus is 'the Kingdom of God is within' or even 'Jesus is in you, even if you do not comprehend it', and 'whoever puts his trust in me (Jesus), rivers of living water will flow from his innermost being'. Sin is violating the divine fountain within, bricking up the waters of life so they are unable to flow.
The Jewish leadership put Jesus to death because he exposed them and because he represented a genuine threat to their collusion with Rome and their reinterpretation of the scriptures to suit their vested interests.
Jesus foresaw the destruction of the rebuilt Temple in AD 70 as judgment on Israel's rulers aligning themselves with Empire, and wept.
Today, Israel's leadership has pimped itself to the Anglo- American Empire, buying favours, support and assent to atrocities beyond imagining through AIPAC funding of political and academic leaders and institutions. I do not see any hatred of the Jewish people, only horror of what Israelies continue to perpetrate on Palestinian and muslim peoples including unspeakable torture of prisoners. I do not believe that Israel has enemies, but that it has created them by intentionally wreaking havoc through bombing and other aggressive actions in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Iran. Restraint is one directional and none is coming from Israel.
If political events in the world seem to circle around maybe its because the world is being given a chance to do better this time!
I have been attending the Traditional Latin Mass, and what I have learned in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults), is that the Gregorian Chants, codified by St. Gregory the Great, are based on the same musical tones that were used in the synagogues in Jesus’ time. The liturgy also is based on the readings from the Psalms and other passages, which are chanted or sung, like it was in the synagogues. This is because the earliest Christians were Jews, and they perpetuated those traditions. I’m told that it is more similar than what is now chanted or sung in modern synagogues, because all that changed after the Diaspora. So the Traditional Latin Mass is closely tied with Judaism. Unfortunately, that has been lost in Protestant denominations and also the Novus Ordo Catholic Mass. With resurgence of evil forces in the world today, I’m not surprised that the Latin Mass has come under attack by the current Pope, and that traditional Catholics who attend it were flagged by the FBI. No offense to Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo mass or Protestants. You would have to experience it for yourselves to see the difference.
I caught that eye roll and smirk as well between Naomi and Rabbi Cahn…a shared private understanding left me with uncomfortable afterthoughts. I do not accept Gentiles are grafted to Israel. anymore than Rabbi Cahn is grafted less than as a Jew through his acceptance of Jesus as his Messiah (although I found out I am 16% Ashkenazi for what is that worth? ) Jesus was not a Christian but a Jewish Messiah sent with a new covenant . As a Gentile, Jesus being a Jewish Messiah was not a concern , His Light and Holy Divinity summoned me.
The eye roll and smirk at 51:51 says a lot. The LORDS hand is on you... you are twice chosen, John 3:5.
Bible prophecy is fun, but there is work to do gathering the CREATORS harvest of souls. You are playing a role in that.
In my late teens in the late 70's I came across Carla Carlson and Hal Lindsey's book and movie The Late Great Planet Earth. A similar discussion, but using current events of those days.
J.
This was a fabulous interview. I’ve always loved Jonathan Cahn and just ordered his book! ❤️
Thank you Dr. Wolf for this interview with Pastor/Rabbi Cahn. I so appreciate your questions, openness and bravery, especially in these times.
I am a Christian, and have followed Jesus for 60 years. I love G-d, the Jewish people and Israel and am so thankful to have been grafted into the “olive tree”. I am one of 8 children in my family. In 1962, at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis my mother was standing at the clothesline hanging the never ending baskets of laundry and she cried out to G-d, “if you are real, help me! I am terrified! How will I keep these 6 (at the time) children safe?”
The next day a woman invited her to Bible Study Fellowship. In studying the Bible with other women, my mom came to believe in Jesus and His death and resurrection as the propitiation for her sin and the gift of eternal life with Him. My father and all of my family eventually became Christians.
G-d moves in this world He created and He moves in individual hearts and lives. Keep seeking! Blessings!
Thank you dear Naomi for sharing such a truly edifying and touching conversation.
You are so loved and appreciated! 🌹
My thoughts of the Mystery of the
“The Holy Trinity”afterward were of…
“In my house there are many Mansions”
John 14 ►
Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus Comforts the Disciples
1Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God: believe also in me. 2In my Father's house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I shall go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself: that where I am, you also may be. 4And whither I go you know: and the way you know.
The Way, the Truth, and the Life
5Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest. And how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
7If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him. And you have seen him.
8Philip saith to him: Lord, show us the Father; and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou: Show us the Father? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 11Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? 12Otherwise believe for the very works' sake. Amen, amen, I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do: and greater than these shall he do. 13Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
(Joel 2:28-32; John 16:5-16; Acts 2:1-13; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-7)
15If you love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever: 17The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you orphans: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live, and you shall live. 20In that day you shall know that I am in my Father: and you in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith to him, not the Iscariot: Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not to the world? 23Jesus answered and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him and we will come to him and will make our abode with him. 24And the word which you have heard is not mine; but the Father's who sent me.
25These things have I spoken to you, abiding with you. 26But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
Naomi,
I believe that Paul went to the nations because he understood that not only would he draw the nations to Yeshua, but he would find the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jews for the most part ( with exceptions) are 2 1/2 tribes and the rest were scattered in the Assyrian exile and scattered in the nations. Yeshua said "the sheep would hear his voice" . In Ezekiel 37 15-28 it says the two branches will become one in the hand of a Davidic King. Paul was not anti Torah. That's a very big misunderstanding of his words. He was just trying to tell the non-Israelites, or the non-Jews that they did not need to circumcise to be included in the covenant. Israel became the "melo-hagoyim" . In Romans 11 it says that Paul did not want us to be ignorant of the mystery but a partial hardening has come to Israel until the until the fullnesss of the nations comes in thus all Israel will be saved. Melo Hagoyim is the same as the pleroo ethnos. The great mystery is that we will live in shalom under King Yeshua. I met a rabbi in Israel who said to me, "he's coming back there" pointing to Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14. I said to him, "They will look upon him who they pierced and weep as one weeps for an only begotten Son" Zechariah 12:10. He said "exactly" There are secret believing Jews in Jerusalem in one yeshiva. . There is much more but I will leave it hear for now. Thanks for this video!
Thank you so much for this interview with Rabbi/Pastor Cahn. The questions you asked were very insightful. As I listen to you and read your beautifully crafted essays, your struggle reconciling your Judaism with Yeshua also being God has been interesting (I wish I had a better word than interesting) to observe. My heart keeps seeing that you are so close to understanding the connections and I pray for you regularly. I am a Christian who has always had a strong affinity for Israel and the Jewish people and culture. From a very young age I have been drawn to books that teach me more about this. After listening to this interview, I believe the reason is that this is truly a soul connection. God grafted us Gentiles into His Jewish family and through that grafting, we are one. How amazing and beautiful is that?!
Thank you for all the tireless work you do on so many fronts. Your readings of the Old Testament are wonderful. I especially enjoy hearing the accurate pronunciations of persons and places.
Many blessings upon you and those you love.
https://www.joebot.xyz/p/faith-based-futurism
I hope this helps with those of you who don’t think we are in the birth pains of end times
A one world government is arising.
https://www.joebot.xyz/p/faith-based-futurism?r=5u4zc&utm_medium=email
Dear Naomi. Thank you for interviewing Jonathan Cahn and giving him your platform to discuss his remarkable work. I've read a couple of his books and have been awestruck by all that he shares. Thank you also for revealing to us the thoughts that heavily occupy your mind at present. It was a lovely moment when you briefly unveiled the deepest part of your internal struggle. I hope you get a chance to talk with "Rabbi Cahn" about it next time. I noticed that you honored him with that title at the end of your interview. It was a respectful gesture, but I believe it also represents a subtle but important softening toward the position he holds, a position that you had been previously careful to define as distinct from your own.
Naturally, I am interested in continuing that conversation that you and Rabbi Cahn had to postpone. I'm sure you won't be surprised to learn that many Jewish seekers have foundered on the claim of Jesus' divinity. It's especially strange for us that someone so soaked in Jewish understanding, Paul the Apostle, would seem to so glibly accept the divinity of Jesus as if it wasn't some kind of blasphemy. Like you, I struggled with coming to terms with Pauline Christianity, given how antithetical to Judaism an idea like the Trinity would seem to be.
I found some books to be particularly helpful in shaping my thinking about this subject. One of them is a short book by John Oesterreicher called "Unfinished Dialogue", written in response to Martin Buber's "Two Types of Faith". A helpful insight from that book that I expect you will particularly enjoy, given your interest in the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, is a discussion about a concept called "the Memra of the Lord. " According to Oesterreicher, the Aramaic word for "logos" is "memra", so if we assume an earlier Aramaic text underlying the Gospel of John, the opening reads: "In the beginning was the Memra, and the Memra was with God and the Memra was God". Later, the Gospel declares, the Memra became flesh and dwelt among us". Oesterreicher points out that there was already a rich history regarding "the Memra of the Lord" in the contemporary commentary of the scripture in the first century called "targumim". "The Memra of the Lord" was a construction used in these targumim to label the anthropomorphised representations of God. When the Lord raises an arm against an opposing army, it is"the Memra of the Lord" that raises its arm. Essentially, the opening of the Gospel of John could be loosely interpreted like this: From the beginning we already knew about the person-like quality of God we called the Memra of the Lord, which was always part of God and was God. This Memra of the Lord became flesh and dwelt among us.
I also highly recommend Krister Stendahl's "Paul Among the Jews and Gentiles" in which Stendhal unpacks what Paul is trying to accomplish in his Epistle to The Romans. We learn that Paul's primary concern was defining this bicameral "Kingdom of God" consisting of Jewish and Gentile components -- separate but equal and ideally mutually blessing each other. I came away with a deeper appreciation of Paul after reading Stendahl. Another essay in that book challenges the notion that Paul struggled with the introspective conscience attributed to him by St. Augustine, reflected in a particular reading of Romans 7 regarding Paul's struggle against sin in the flesh. Stanley Stowers' "A rereading of Romans" really clarifies the point by bringing a deep understanding of Homeric Greek to this passage. We learn the passage needs to be read rhetorically as a dialogue, and the resulting reading is much more consistent with the way Paul presents himself elsewhere in scripture, as a proud learned Jew with an excellent rabbinical pedigree.
There's much to say about this topic, and there are many more well informed people than I with whom you can have this discussion, but I'm happy to share a piece of my journey when, like you, my head was filled with those same thoughts.
Hi Robert. Beautifully articulated comment.
I feel that the fact that Trinitarianism was not always the dominant belief in Christendom should be highlighted often. Your comment on "the Memra of the Lord" is very interesting. To me the weightiest consideration on this is: what do we mean by the concept of Jesus' divinity? If 'theos' is a title, what does it mean? What does it mean when people ask, was Jesus divine or human? Is divinity an order of being? Or, is 'theos', being a title, unrelated to Jesus' nature, but rather to the power to subject? In other words, we need to clearly define the terms. The importance of this question cannot be overstated as it has ingrained the idea that to accept Paul you must accept the Trinity, which, is a deal-breaker for many. What if Jesus, irrespective of the make-up of His being, nonetheless has a God? And why did Paul often start his epistles with something like: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...? Did Paul believe that Jesus has a God? Yes he did. That is the true North that guided me through the fog of confusion called Trinitarianism.
Of interest on the etymology of 'theos':
Ryan K. Balot's 'Greed and Injustice in Classical Athens' quotes 'The Histories of Herodotus' (420-450BC) regarding the Pelasgians' use of the plural 'theoi' (the Pelasgians are thought to be the earliest/prehistoric inhabitants of Greece):
“Herodotus… describes the Pelasgians' method of sacrificing to the gods without any distinction of name or title. He says, "They called these [divinities] theoi, from the fact that they place [thentes] all things in order [kosmos] and assign all distributions.”
The thought of placing or subjecting does seem to be the central meaning of 'El', 'Eloah', 'Elohim' and the Greek 'Theos'.
"For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet...
For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God [the Supreme Subjector or Placer] may be All in all." - 1Cor.15
I used to be evangelical
I used to be a Christian
I have dropped the label
Just to be a believer
I think for myself
I do not fall or follow the mystical
To many tongues trained to deceive
Blocking all preventing to receive
Commonsense, reason and logic
I don’t live in the Old
I live in the New
Victimhood has been made into a tool
To keep talking into circles
Is just what it is
It goes around and around
Around, around
Never to stop
With no door for an exit
Until it forms an obvious chaos neurosis
The perfect psychological trap
I study history to see so much twisting
Preacher, Rabbi and Imam
Say what you want
Making written man made Law
You are not the authority to add
Nor to away
You yourself are but flesh
Never forget
Your interview has spurred me to write an article about the ways the authors of the New Testament acknowledge the divinity of Jesus, in sources other than Paul:
https://firstfactcheck.substack.com/p/claim-the-apostle-paul-introduced
I would encourage you to read the New Testament yourself rather than reading what people say about the New Testament. Always go to the primary source.